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Soooooooooo, I've been thinking about things. So I'm just going to put it out there. Wondering if there's anyone out there who would be interested in running a second 10 man raid group. I'd like them to be on the same days, but the times can be different.

Thinking same days because I don't want it to get in the way of us trying to do other things in game. "Can't, raiding," actually annoys me a little when I say it or hear other guildies say it. Reminds me of the days in the end of Vanilla WoW, when we were in three/four different raid groups and so we never did anything together. When BC 10 mans came out I was so thrilled that we could finally raid together. The other option could also be one day the same and one day different. Just so long as schedules don't clash too much.

As leader of said raid group, you would be responsible for posting the calendar invites for your group, coordinating with the other raid group leader to make sure there's no roster clashes. Know the fights and are able to describe and assign for them, be able to fairly distribute the loot and have a good head for taking care of any issues that arise within your group. Recruit for your group when/if you need to. Communicate with the other raid group leaders about any problems with members, loot, fights, whateva! Maybe even good things too! Heh.

Heh... Tyzen, myself, and Darba were actually talking about this same thing in vent the other night... Though I don't know if I could handle the added burden currently (maybe sooner than later though). Plus, Tyzen can't really make raids very often

Still it is a thought, maybe I will consider it and get hold of you if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

P.S. I think same days is good, but it might also be beneficial to run them on different days, or at least one of the days, to allow for people who might not be able to make the wed/sat schedule work. Would have to be something to figure out, I am not really partial to either way. I definitely would like to get back into raiding again, that's for sure.

there is also the idea that we could arrange it to be more aceptable ot various timezones.

Raid2 could be set up for us westcoasters.

2copper: I'm a westcoaster and the current raid time is perfect for when I get home from work. /end

1 more copper than that: as am I, but I would actually think us westcoasters could start and end just a tad later than our Midwestern or Eastern brothers and sisters. I know personally, I would dig more time to feed my family, do a few chores round the home, and make sure the household is ship-shape before leaping into raid. And I'm better Tyzen would concur with this sentiment.... also, we can go to 11 or 12 gametime with few to no ill effects, whilst our fearless leaders Red and Gohir risk severe dementia if they stay up that late, and heaven knows, that's a recipie for madness there.

That being said, I'll lead this second raid if nobody else steps up.

Well the time zone idea is a good point. Heh right now as it stands, I usually make it home with 15 minutes or less to spare before raid currently. A 7:30-10:30 ish time frame server time might be nice, or even an 8:00-1ish maybe? Hmph I kinda forget exactly how long we usually go for our raids. I was thinking 3-4 hours is usually standard.

And yeah, tyzen could probably do 8 pm.

*nods* True. I'm sure my husband would like it if I ate dinner with him on raid nights, but it's not huge. Going to 11 is ok, but it's sort of a grey area into my bed time. >.> *cough* did I say "bed time"?

That would be the reason why I say I'd prefer same days, yet different times. The time being flexible to make it more appropriate for whoever, in particular those what would lead it. I do know that the current raid can be a tight thing for some of the west coasters and that our current raid time is actually just at the limit for our east coasters in terms of end time.

I mentioned already why I prefer same days, or at least one day the same, so I won't repeat it.

And the reason I'm bringing this up is that we have for the past few weeks been putting people on standby and I kinda hate doing that. It's necessary, but I'd prefer not to. I hate people logging off all disappointed.

This is not a definate thing. Just something I've been thinking about. If I continually find myself having to put 3-4 people on standby each week then, yeah, I think it may be time to find a way to get a second group going. But that group will need a leader that isn't me, heh. Or Gohir, for that matter. He's my right hand man. Leading is much easier with him then without him, I've noticed.

Well I think that may be something you might want to consider with the new group, Red: that you lean on Gohir so much is only indicative that it is a responsibility best shared with some highly talented, trustworthy folks. As such, you may need more than one new leader.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the proposal as stated, though. I am concerned that the current raid would become the "A-Team" and Raid2 would become "the folks not welcome or who don't fit in the A-Team." Even if that would not be true in reality, I don't think I even like the idea that it could be perceived that way.

I'd like to see some kind of rotation where there aren't folks in Raid1 and folks in Raid2, but rather folks who raid for IPA, and the groups are divided out each raid night with some from of rotation such that nobody stays in Raid1 or Raid2 constantly. This would both help Raid2 get off the ground (since they'd, by design, be getting some of the heavily experienced folk from the current raid each night), and prevent any kind of jealousy/nasty competitiveness from starting between the groups (since there would be in effect only one group). This would necessarily imply that there would still be only one calendar invite, which again only reinforces that we would not become IPARaid1 and IPARaid2, but rather continue to be IPARaiders.

Just my two bits. Sadly, I am not qualified for the job. All the feedback I have received about my raid leading is that I am a nut-buster, and nobody seems to like that.

I contend that we tend to be. . . I don't know the right word. . .exceptional? and would be less likely and more active in preventing such a schism from occurring.

Am I to continually kick people out and deal with the grumpies that result? People don't mind stepping out of a raid every once in awhile. But when it becomes a consistant thing, even if it is simply because of necessity and not at all because of personal tastes, one starts having negative thoughts. And I don't like dealing with grumpies. >(

I'd rather work to provide an outlet then shoo people away.

I understand your concern, but I would hope people would think of it as the "earlier raid" and the "later raid." On that basis, the roster would even be largely self-selecting as people chose the time that worked best for them.

Well, I think having a second raid is a great idea. If we have enough interest. I really don't think the ateam/bteam issue will be a problem. Just more of a chance for people to hang with each other. I really want to get back into raiding myself, Now that life is started to not be so stupid and I kind of have a plan of where I'm going to live. hehe. With that said, let's just see what kind of interest we have, and if we have enough for two groups, I say let's do it.

OKay, 'nuff talk.

What say we give this a whirl starting in february? We need a raid leader and a second raid leader for the late raid.

The following makeup would be nice too.

2 tanks (one switchable)
3 healers (one switchable)
5 dps
(2 casters, 2 melee, one caster or melee..hello shaman)

Who wants to sign up?
Who wants to lead it?
Who wants to lead it also?

I'll put my name down for this crazy scheme.

Plainswander - DPS caster
I can also bring the surfer to MT or OT...but that is a risky scheme.

we should start with ToC10,shakedown cruise and stuff. If we can clear that, then it's on to ICC.

Time, same day as the early raid. But starting at 8:00 instead of 6:30. We will probably raid till 10:30 -11:00.
The usual Ishie raid rules apply. Be on time. Have your consumables in order. Know your fights.

What say you?

(Also, I am also concerned about what was said above... I would dearly like to avoid any suggestion of "A team / B team" foolishness. )

For the next four weeks starting on Monday the 11th I would be able to join later evening raids at about 7pm or so. After that I have no idea until I'm given my schedule.

I wish I could support the 2nd raid more, but with the overlap of the two raids I obviously can only attend one, even if I have alts I could bring to the other.

I do know some folks who may be interested in joining the 2nd raid, however. If you like, I can help try to recruit some folks to fill out the ranks. I won't do so unless folks ask, though. This is Ishnu's raid, not mine, and I don't feel it's my place to send invitations without Ishnu's "ok."